Attitude of the Random Player — 33 Comments

  1. Yes, there’s definitely a difference. And I think the reason is the one you mentioned, people expect other people to be able to know what they are doing by then.
    Heroics are heroics, the harder version of the dungeons. If you are new to a role or class at 85, run normal dungeons, that’s what they are there for, heroics have minimum average ilvl for a reason. If you are running heroics, it’s expected that you know what you are doing.

    On the other hand, that doesn’t justify the abhorrent behavior a great part of the WoW community has towards others. Anonimity sucks in that regard.

    • I think what I find frustrating when running Heroics isn’t that people complain when people play badly, but for things like.. their gear isn’t up to the other person’s standards (often it seems expecting people to have full raid gear, but I question why you’d even still do Heroics then.. and surely alts are still running lots of Heroics to get gear – I know mine are!) Or just poor attitude in general. I’ll allow for a mistake or two – but if they do the same mistake over and over I get annoyed. It frustrates me with Hunters who can’t trap – especially after the Trap Launcher entered the game. I don’t see how it could get any easier. Or Mages who don’t sheep. People who don’t silence/counterspell.

      I don’t care if you enter a dungeon with sub-optimal gear as long as you know how to play your class and the tactics for the dungeon in question. But I seem to be one of the few people who don’t. (Obviously within reason, if the gear is an issue to completing the dungeon it’s a problem. Thankfully the ilevel requirement helps, but it doesn’t work entirely since you can have a full set of epics for dps in your banks and still queue as a tank in full greens.)

  2. Personally, as a tank, I get tired of telling people what their classes can do. Purge this, interrupt that, bubble this, use this damage reduction. Sometimes I just wish people knew how to play their class so I didn’t have to tell them each time we go to the same boss. On the other hand, I don’t yell at people. I usually just pick up the slack, or try to explain what went wrong if we wipe.

    In general though, it would be nice for people to research or at least try out some stuff so they get to know their classes more. I put the effort forward so I don’t know why they shouldn’t.

    When it comes to gear, I don’t even care. As long as the boss dies and dies reasonably quickly that’s all I care about. I’ve only had to remove maybe 4-5 people from group for doing less than 5k DPS before. Gear is only an extension of your skill and knowledge. I try to tell my guildies sometimes but I don’t think they get it half the time. My DPS lead, I think, is still amazed I can do 12-3k on my BM hunter in basic heroic gear. But in the end I value knowledge over power I think.

    • I get frustrated when people don’t know their class as well – but I usually try to be helpful rather than to just tell them they suck (as I get the impression you do as well). I just don’t think someone gets better by hearing they suck, but they might get better if you tell them that X ability is really useful when Y happens – or something.

      Something that amazes me still is how few people seem to care to do interrupts. I just finished healing a ZG where all 3 dps were able to silence – and we still had full duration on Whispers of Hethiss pretty much every single time. Things like that really frustrate me. Or people who fail on basic things like moving out of the bad.

      • Tanks can interrupt properly now too. I think it is cast a liiittle too often for the tank to get it right at the start of every cast though. When I’m tanking I always deal with anything I know MUST be interrupted (including Whispers of Hethiss) because I know getting DPS to interrupt is near impossible. If they are going to interrupt I’ll find out soon enough, no need to waste a wipe to find out though.

        • Oh, when I’m tanking I interrupt as well – it’s just a lot easier than waiting to see if the dps will do it. Heck, if I can be in melee range without issues and can spare the gcd while healing, I’ll even interrupt as a healer. It’s funny though, because you’d think dps would have the easiest time interrupting, and yet they’re the ones who do the least of it.

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  5. I always felt it was in part to goals. At lower levels yes mistakes are much easier to handle but being nicer means more time running 5-mans and thus more quick exp, especially since the vanilla and bc versions are chop full of trash to level off of. But in heroics people are their for gear, they want no frills do your job lets go so I can get points behavior and thus have much less tolerance for mistakes. Plus pity the poor bastard who lands the uber geared healer/tank who feels their leetness means we must bow down to their demand we make not even a twitch of a less then perfect play. How many have bailed simply because they felt our non hardcore raiding attitude tainted their very very leet presence.

    -dryn, the space goat pally

    • That may very well be true – I will admit that I, myself, get frustrated when people in Heroics aren’t doing their jobs correctly. I still try to be relatively nice about it though.

      I do find there’s a difference to just being undergeared or pulling 8k dps rather than 12k etc. It doesn’t bother me if someone is less geared and doing less dps – as long as they know what they’re doing. Interrupt/Silence, don’t stand in bad – dps the right target. If they do all that, but do less dps than others – I really don’t care. If they make those mistakes – I do care. Heck, you can be fully raid geared and make those mistakes, I’ll still be peeved 😛

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  7. Today we wiped in H ZD and the first thing the rogue typed after the first wipe on the boss was “Retards” at which case me being the tank said “Why are we retards”, he replied with the “mage didnt stack on shock lighting”. “So that makes us all retarded because of a mistake”… The mage then said “sorry new to the instance” and the rogue who was sporting his group leader flag then explained it to the mage….Why in the world that is so hard to do after dieing in a video game is beyond me, and why people rage so easily in heroics is silly…. I think the majority want the dungeons to be dirt simple and leave the wipes to raids…Blizz will eventually cater and that rogue will tank ZM by himself….

    • If someone’s new – it’s understandable that they make a mistake. Sure, I’d have preferred if the person said before we do the boss, but mistakes happen. I agree that it’s better to explain the tactics than just throw out some blanket “retards” statement. I think you’re pretty spot on that people just want their Heroics quick and easy. I like mine quick and smooth myself, but I won’t start cussing at people if they make one mistake.

    • Oh, I love those. My favorite so far has been a mage (part of a 2-mage, same guild pair) who died repeatedly to the lightning storm on Akil’Zon and raged over NOOBS LRN2STACK. Considering we hadn’t discussed stacking, etc., I found it hilarious that this raid geared player couldn’t simply adjust to running to the safe spot when his preferred tactic wasn’t used.

      • I’ll admit – I didn’t know there was any tactic other than running to that safe spot 😉 I agree though, it’s funny how people think their way is the best way – even if they keep dying 😛

  8. The reason why there is an attitude difference is something you danced around: when leveling, it is time to learn. When you hit the level cap, you can still learn, but only in regulars.
    When you get into raids and heroics, kid gloves come off, you should know what you are doing by then.

    I’m not endorsing the attitude that many people in the LFG have, but I can sympathize with some of them.
    When I zone in as a DPS, I check the gear of the tank (to determine experience – if hes rocking full blues and no rep, then I know I’m gonna have to be patient, but if hes rocking full epics, the tank should know whats up), and I politely ask the tank to mark a first and second kill for me so I know what (s)he is planning on applying the most threat to. I wait a GCD or 2 before going in, and then a rend+MS later, I’m now tanking the mob marked with a skull.
    Next pull, I wait another GCD (thats 2-3 now) and its the same result.

    Another example of people getting exasperated with the LFD tool is the tank that is geared like a pro, but still wants you to CC 3 of the 4 mobs in a pull. Its uncalled for, wastes time (unless you are running with a mostly guild group) and just irritates people that have already spent close to an hour waiting to get in, and now have to do the instance at a glacial pace.

    • I definitely get annoyed if people don’t know what they’re doing in Heroics – I’m not trying so say I don’t. However, I try to be helpful rather than just yell at them. But I also find that there’s a difference between not knowing how to play your class (which I expect them to in a Heroic), and just not having the best gear yet.

      I get frustrated when people yell and complain about people’s gear. As long as they play their class properly – I think they should be able to do Heroics, their ilevel was high enough to get them in; so just because someone decides that they think anyone without full Heroic gear/raid gear shouldn’t be there – it’s really not their choice. To me it’s more important that someone knows what they’re doing than what gear they wear. But I’ve had people complain about others before even the first trash pack is pulled. At that point they go by nothing other than the person’s gear or lack thereof – while it might turn out they play really well and do quite good dps.

  9. As a player, The minimum I require in a PUG is knowing the fight mechanics of an instance. I feel that If you do not know any mechanics of the boss fights in a heroic you shouldn’t be running it. If you are not prepared it affects my time playing. Some people think this requirement is ridiculous. So I am curious, do you think is expecting PUGS to know the boss mechanics of the instance they are running a difficult requirement? Am I requiring too much?

    • I do want people to know the tactics in a Heroic, and if it’s their first time in there and they’re a bit uncertain about the differences between normal and Heroic – I expect them to ask so I can tell them rather than let us wipe before admitting that they don’t know.

      It’s a bit frustrating if someone doesn’t know the tactics, but I rather spend a moment telling them than wipe.

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  11. It’s strange because I’ve noticed the exact opposite. People in lowbie dungeons aren’t as scrutinizing, sure, but they are a heck of a lot more impatient. I can’t remember the last lowbie dungeon I ran that went like you described. More often than not it feels like a race to the finish line, with a DPS-specced tank slamming around a 2H and eating half my mana per pull. Chain chain chain gogogo more more more faster faster!

    I’m levelling a rogue and my friend is levelling a warlock and he wanted to queue us up for a dungeon when we were in our 30s. I level alts all the time but this was his first lowbie since Cata dropped. We did the dungeon and his reaction was one of shock. It was utter chaos, with the tank racing around from mob to mob, not even stopping to make sure it was dead before grabbing the next group, and the healer just following behind throwing a Renew every so often. He asked me if that’s what dungeons had become nowadays, and I said sadly yes.

    There is no learning that goes on in lowbie dungeons anymore, there is only zerg.

    • That may be true, I’ve mainly been doing dungeons in the 60s and 70s range lately. I’ve only been in a very low amount of the lower level ones since Cata hit – about to start doing more of those though since I’m leveling a baby hunter. I went into the first one on the hunter last night and I agree that it was nothing more than a zerg fest. If the tank even tries to tank they aren’t allowed because dps just zerg everything. I find it a bit frustrating because it doesn’t prepare people for the end game dungeons. If they get into the habit of just zerging everything – it’s no wonder we end up with the gogogo people in the level 85 Heroics.

  12. At low levels, the first thing I do is check the tank for BoA gear. If yes, then I know, as a healer, I’m never going to get a chance to loot, much less drink if need be (my most recent healer I’m leveling is a paladin, so mana’s largely a non-issue, but even so). I actually find it a relief when a tank isn’t loaded with BoA gear. Still, more often than not, people don’t even let a tank, well, tank, regardless of BoA gear or not, and less chance of it if the tank doesn’t have BoA gear, since they don’t have the threat generation of a BoA tank.

    At 85, I do get irked sometimes, but generally because I’ve had a bad day, or been waiting through 3-4 previous tanks and/or healers dropping queues on me (I’m trying to gear up some of my DPS alts), but generally do my best to be understanding if someone’s new to an instance, or new to tanking, even as a veteran player.

    Still, I sometimes miss BC and actually having to cooperate as a group, regardless of level, to get the dungeon done. Nowadays, for low level dungeons, it’s the tank and whatever AoE the group has. A healer is, largely, unnecessary, until you get to around level 50 or so, and it’s a shame. It’s actually even worse when you are leveling a healer and actually looking forward to BC instances and new death knight tanks just for a change of pace.

    • I can definitely see the incredible speed that you’re talking about in low level dungeons. I haven’t done much of the really low level dungeons this expansion, but I’ve recently started a baby hunter and queued up for the first time yesterday. We got into Shadowfang Keep and the tank immediately left. We requeued but it took about 10-15 minutes before we got a new tank.

      It didn’t stop us though – which in a way I find kind of sad. We just steamrolled through about half the instance while waiting for a tank – with a disc priest smite healing the entire group. It’s kind of crazy really, and definitely doesn’t set a good precedent for how it will work at later levels.

  13. Your list of what happens in dungeons at level 85 made me laugh, as a tank, especially the ‘- One wipe; people leave.’ one, which is so true.

    I’d just like to add one line I often hear when anything not supposed to happens (often a wipe, but has happened in BRC when one of the cultists evolved) happens, and which practically irks me:

    “wow, really?”

    I’ll usually quit to avoid raging at these individuals when I read that.

  14. I am leveling a tank for the first time, after being DPS forever. What baffles me in low level dungeons is how people just ignore tanking mechanics. They just pull as they feel like, steal aggro, and so on. Usually when I say “please let me pull”, or “give me 2 sec to get threat”, I’m answered with “we’re XX level, whatever”. And then moments later someone pulls too much, and we wipe.

    As a DPS, I used to hate wiping on heroics. As a new tank, all I wish is that every dungeon was as hard as Cata heroics, to teach people good manners from level 20.


    • When writing the post I’d not done the lower level (below 40) dungeons for some time – I just went back in last night and found exactly what you said. It’s a shame in so many ways really; the tank doesn’t get the opportunity to learn how to tank and the dps don’t learn to CC or even pick the correct target to dps. It’s all a breeding ground for the “gogogo”-mentality players at later levels, because they never learn how to do it “right”.

      • “Gogogo”. Had forgotten that one, too.

        As for DPS, these people are alien to me. Don’t these people have a minimum of 30 minutes of waiting before getting in a dungeon? (On my server, Thorium Brotherhood, anyway)

        Why do they leave so quickly at the first sign of trouble?

        • That’s something that puzzles me too. Last time I queued as dps my wait was a whopping 50 minutes! There’s no way I’d leave and requeue unless we consistently wiped for hours with no sign of improvement.

  15. I think part of the gogogo issue is if many people are just leveling alts (because it’s not like we have a tidal wave of new players every month ya know) they want results. They work and have kids, then after doing the work on their main they jump on their baby alt and want alot of bang for very little buck. And honestly I get that but I remember when I first leveled an alt through the DF (my main was 78 when it first came out) I learned to quickly zero in on the boa tanks and just run with them as much as possibly even if the group generally sucked because they could handle that huge rush, they could pile on the mobs and your friendly neighborhood mage would aoe them down and in no time at all you gain levels. So over time that just became the default, older players wanting results. I do agree a horrible way to train newbies but issues with the DF will never go away until the DF itself does ya know?

    And the crappy remarks at the first wipe is I think kind of a problem with disconnection. Or at least one aspect. I don’t generally think most people in the DF are jerks but it’s kind of like road rage. There are a bunch of people around you frustrating you over what seems like a simple task, and you don’t know them, you don’t know they just lost their job or their lady love left them or their friend aced that one big test and you didn’t. So because you don’t know why that shammy keeps dying you just flip at the loss of control and contact. I sometimes wonder how things would change if everytime you grouped up you would auto-matically be put in a vent channel right with them. When the people become real honest to goodness people on the other side of that shammy we as people are less likely to flip out. Chat doesn’t convey emotion, it won’t tell you the hunter is having add on issues or that the tank had their cat decide at just the worst time to jump on their keyboard and blow the whole thing. When everyone becomes just a blur with a class assigned to it you don’t generally feel for them and they become a means to YOUR level or YOUR valor gear. And when THEY wipe how dare THEY make it harder for YOU to get that one shoulder piece YOU worked so hard to earn, you know?

    It’s late but yeah I think that’s coherant.

    dryn-the space goat pally

    • I think you make a very good point, it’s definitely easier to rage at someone you don’t know and don’t hear – because all you see is an avatar in a game. It’s easy to forget that there’s a real person behind a keyboard who might get upset about things you tell them.

      (Sorry for the short reply, sitting in Spain on my vacation on a crappy laptop with an even crappier internet connection 😉 )

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