Healing Wet Paper

When it comes to wearing PvP gear in Heroic dungeons it’s not something I generally approve of. However, I can deal with people wearing a few pieces now and then, especially in the slots where it can be difficult getting PvE gear (like shoulders and head). When I zone into a dungeon though to find my tank in full PvP gear I am not happy.

Out of the roles that benefit the most from PvE gear tanks are the clear winners. A dps in PvP gear may do less dps, a healer in PvP gear might go oom and have less throughput. Both are frustrating, but then you have a tank in PvP gear, and it’s like healing wet paper.

A lot of tanks who queue for dungeons wearing PvP gear either don’t care or don’t understand how bad their gear really is for tanking. Resilience really doesn’t help you in PvE (it used to a bit, but it was changed some time ago I believe), and PvP gear lacks the secondary stats that are so important for tanks; ie. dodge/parry and to some extent mastery (since I realise some PvP gear do have Mastery). Your health might look mighty fine, but you will take a lot of damage when you don’t have dodge and parry.

I entered a dungeon the other day on my Holy Paladin, finding myself at the second boss in End Time. The previous healer had obviously left. As we started the boss fight I noticed that my Warrior tank was taking an insane amount of damage. To keep him alive I had to, literally, spam Divine Light. After the boss died I inspected him only to find that the only piece of actual tank gear he was wearing was his shield.

Sure, he had a lot of health (200k ish), but that doesn’t help when each hit seems to take half of it off. I kept him alive, but my Paladin is decently geared from Dragon Soul and Firelands. I imagine that had I been on one of my lesser geared healers he would have died quicker than I could spam my highest heal (or I’d have gone oom doing so and he’d have died anyway).

I realise that it’s tempting to queue as tank for the quicker queues, but please, please queue as dps while still wearing full PvP gear. Get some tank gear and then queue as tank!

Ironically the tank boots dropped off the boss in this instance and this “well-geared” tank decided to pass them. Yes, you read that right. He passed on the tank loot. Because apparently he felt that his PvP gear was good enough for him.

If you’ll excuse me, I will now go cry in a corner about the world we play in where PvP gear apparently is adequate tank gear to the point where we can pass on actual tank gear…


Comments

Healing Wet Paper — 10 Comments

  1. My last five man I had a holy paladin queue up as Dps…. although to be fair they beat the Warlock.

    I can heal most 5 mans ok in my PvP gear (tend not to though because people complain :p) and I’ve had purely pvp geared dps pulling great dps as well as providing cc/generally playing their class to the fullest potential but tanks make me cry too.

    Think people just look at item level and no further half the time. Something which Blizzard’s proposed MoP changes will hopefully fix.

    • To be fair I really have no issue with dps or healers who wear PvP gear. As long as it doesn’t make the dungeon less smooth (which most of the times it doesn’t), I don’t care what kind of gear people wear. Someone could wear greys to heal if they want to, as long as everyone stays alive – I’m happy :)

      Tanks are the less forgiving role for not wearing the correct gear though. PvP gear just doesn’t have any of the stats that are important for them (like for healers, PvP gear still has intellect and spirit, the two that might matter the most). Sure it has stamina, but it’s completely lacking dodge and parry. I haven’t looked to see how much Mastery it has, but judging from the guy I was healing, not enough ;)

      I’m not saying that a tank in PvP gear can’t be healed, since I did heal one. But it puts a lot of stress on the healer, and if the healer isn’t well geared they most likely can’t do it. (I suspect the healer who was in there before me gave up.)

      I realise I made it sound like I hate on PvP wearing people in general in dungeons, but truth be told I don’t really care as long as you’re not a tank and you can do your role fine. Getting tank gear can be difficult, but it’s not an excuse for people to queue as tank in gear that’s not meant to be used for tanking. They should queue as dps, they can wear all the PvP gear they want then! ;)

      And yes, I hope that the MoP changes announced will change this as well. I’m carefully optimistic about it at least ;)

  2. Hehe, I guess not all that much has changed in WoW since I’ve left.
    PvP geared nubs in heroics….oh the memories! I actually admire you healing, many other healers would’ve refused to even get going with an MT geared like this in a PuG.

    It’s different when it’s your own group – no issues there if you know your players, especially your DPS, but in a PuG, uhhh….

    • Well, I was dropped into the middle of the instance and at that point I just wanted to get it done *lol* It took me a while to realise what was wrong in the first place. I’m not used to tanks taking half their hit in one blow *lol*

      I definitely agree that it’s different when it’s your own group. With friends/guildies you can play however you want as long as you know you can pull it off. When ZA/ZG first came out a guildie had a new Mage which was quite far from meeting the ilevel requirement, so we walked to the entrance of ZG and took him through it anyway. Which works fine like that, but he never should have set his foot in a PUG (admittedly he couldn’t cause of his ilevel anyway even if he tried hehe)

  3. Well, Check out the posts and blog from Greet Street a.k.a. “Ghostcrawler”… I was turn on to it from WoW Insider…

    PVP gear will be lower ilvl in MOP for the same tier level PVE gear, the new “PVP stats” will be effectively “free” for itemization purposes…

    I have felt your pain, and though I do not share your opinion about dps and healers in PVP gear being okay in heriocs, I was so very happy to read the latest on this PVP/PVE gear ilvl itemization change… it will work both ways in theory, it will push PVP players to get PVP gear, and PVE players to get PVE gear.. they are even simlifying names for PVP stats to be clear… like “PVP Defense” instead of some obscure and cool name like resilience…

    I just quit doing dungeons myself.. just dont run them any more… I dont run LFR, I don’t run LFD… I just raid Normal… That was sadly my fix to the situation in my case… My guildees can not even really get me to go… I ran them for a couple weeks, collected what I wanted/needed and then when it was too painful to lose rolls to terribadies for the ONE PIECE OF GEAR I was in LFR for… I made my exit from the scene… leaving it to the growing percentage of baddies that are left in the LFR/LFD systems… Its like blizzard made it so that the good players HAVE TO run with the baddies to get them gear… gear they will not enhance w/ chants and gems nor reforge or do anything else to optimize… to them it just boosts their ilvl I imagine…

    On my main, I am at 4800 valor.. an nothing to really spend it on… well, nothing I really want to yet…

    • ” I do not share your opinion about dps and healers in PVP gear being okay in heriocs”

      I had someone criticise my PvP gear on the Love is the Air boss :D
      That pinnacle of difficult PvE content that you don’t actually need a healer for.

      “Tanks are the less forgiving role for not wearing the correct gear though. ”

      Oh I totally agree and I’m curious how the proposed MoP changes will play out in that regard. Will there be a “tank” PvP set, does the talent trees/spec + glyphs cover everything tanks needs or does the design plan of PvP gear in PvE fall flat when it comes to tanks?

      • I did the Love is in the Air boss without a healer several times, though I was rather surprised each time because I wasn’t expecting it *lol* Suddenly I just saw my health drop really low and no heals were incoming – I checked my Recount and saw that everyone was dpsing! Which is fine, I could pop cooldowns because the boss don’t even live that long, but I wish they’d have told me and I could have done something about it before dropping to 30% health *lol*

        I’m really curious to see what they do with the MoP changes. It wouldn’t surprise me though if tanking will not fall into this category. Mainly because I don’t think they ever fully intended for people to be a “tank” in PvP. I could be wrong of course, but I highly doubt they will start making PvP gear with dodge/parry. It seems a bit unfair since there definitely are a fair few Blood DKs, Prot Warriors and Prot Paladins in PvP. (Maybe some bears too, but I’ve been leaving them out of the discussion since they’re the one tank that actually slightly benefit from PvP gear due to agility giving them defense stats.) Wouldn’t surprise me if we find that PvP working in PvE does fall flat when it comes to tanks.

    • I would obviously prefer for everyone to wear PvE gear in Heroics, but I never felt that PvP geared dps was much of an issue. Their dps generally don’t suffer too much if they have some hit, and as long as they know how to play it’s a non-issue. For dps I always feel it’s more about the player than the gear. I’ve run into full PvP geared people who do more dps than full PvE geared people (talking PUGs now, I’d not expect them to do more dps than a skilled player in PvE gear). As for healers in PvP gear their throughput and mana might suffer a bit, but a lot of PvP gear comes with Spirit these days and as long as I’m being kept alive and we don’t have to stop for mana after every trash pull – again I don’t really mind.

      For tanks that just doesn’t work though since they’re so reliant on their secondary stats. PvP gear does nothing for a tank other than offer stamina. For dps and healers it still offers a fair chunk of their needed stats to perform their roles, just less of it. While tanks, there’s nothing of what they need (dodge/parry).

      I felt that Blizzard were a bit unclear about the changes. They were talking about ilevels being lower for PvP gear (which is good, since they’ve been much too high), and the PvP Defense and Power seems interesting – but they also mentioned that they will not impact the secondary stats/regular stats of gear. So you will not have less strength/haste/crit I assume. Which means PvP gear will actually be better in PvE than they are now (while not as good as PvE gear of course). It will help with the inflation of ilevels though and might keep people from boosting their ilevels through PvP gear.

  4. The problem is simply that the old heroics are poorly designed and just filled with worse players. I *tried* to gear up in old heroics. I honestly, genuinely did. But it was hell. 90 minute runs. People dying in dumb crap. And if you have the ilevel for the troll instances – it puts you in them . . . and then you have to explain every single boss fight, and know your way around, and deal with skipping bosses and herding cats.

    But on the flipside, tanks are the one role that can’t get away with much pvp gear, unfortunately. But then again, people get mad if you roll on tanking gear even if your only purpose of *being* there is to get tanking gear . . . so as long as the healer *can* keep you alive, and does . . . why not give it a shot. The key thing I look for on other players is actually gems and enchants, not ilevel and epics. The player wearing full pvp gear but with everything gemmed, enchanted, and reforged over the guy in 378 epics, ungemmed, unenchanted, every time. Because the person in gemmed/enchanted gear is genuinely trying to gear up.

    We’re pretty awful in wow for giving new players and new alts too little leeway. “Why can’t you do 35k dps like me!?”

  5. Pingback: On Levelling and my Love Affair with Kreug Oathbreaker « Harpy’s Nest Blog

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