A Little Rant

The last few days I’ve been leveling a (new) pandaren together with a friend, this time as horde. She’s healing while I took up the mantle of being the tank so that we’d get quick queues. This all worked perfectly well all the way through until we hit Outland. Up until then every group we had was decent and efficient, and we got through every dungeon without issues.

The moment we started queuing for Outland dungeons people have started whining about pulling more, bigger packs. Thing is, I like to pull the amount that I feel comfortable with. And that my healer feels comfortable with. Not what the dps feels like we should be pulling.

Sure, I can pull bigger packs, but it depends on the dungeon and if it’s one I’ve not been in yet on this particular tank I like to do a handful of pulls first to get an idea about how much damage I take. If everything looks fine on that front, yeah I’ll start doing bigger pulls. The dps in these dungeons don’t seem to understand this though, but would whine about bigger pulls already on the first trash pack.

Our first Ramparts run we had a dps who went off and pulled an additional eight mobs. Which turned out to be too much, and we wiped. (I’ve found that Monks are a bit weak when it comes to resisting magic damage, while I seem to be able to take quite a beating when it comes to physical damage. Those casters in Ramparts did not play nice!)

I get very frustrated when dps take it upon themselves to start pulling additional mobs. 1) I don’t have an AoE taunt so I can’t get snap aggro for the most part, even if I can get it fairly quickly. But add some casters to the mix and I can’t get them all easily. 2) There might be a reason I’m not doing large pulls. Like in the instance where the mobs charm and fear. We had another dps there who decided it was a good idea to pull an entire room. Before I had time to grab aggro on all of them they charmed me, and a couple of people died. 3) I don’t necessarily think bigger pulls = a quicker dungeon run. If you have a really good group and nice AoE dps, sure – but if not, it’s going to take as long to kill those 10 mobs in two packs of five as it will to kill them all in one go (more or less).

Pandaren tank of awesomeness!

All in all, I get very frustrated. The mentality of pulling everything at once is one that I don’t quite understand. When I play with a group of friends, and I know what everyone is capable of – definitely! But with people that I only met just a few seconds ago? Please, no. Let me at least do a few pulls first to get a feel for the damage on me and the abilities of the group in general.

One of the pushy dps even called me the slowest tank ever. While I might have seemed slow to him, I have to admit that I don’t consider myself slow. To me, a slow tank is someone who will stand around and wait between pulls. I may not pull a full room at the same time, but I pull a group, kill it, loot it (ie. one mouse-click), then immediately move and pull the next group.

I’m obviously not saying that I think dungeons should be slow, I like them quick and painless myself, but I consider the dungeons I run to be just that. Until some dps decides we’re pulling too few packs and starts pulling extras. Which always ends up running for the healer, and I have to scramble to grab them all.

What’s your stance on speed in dungeons?


A Little Rant — 11 Comments

  1. It’s up to the tank and healer to decide pace in my opinion. Dps who whine about the speed always annoy me. I’d rather go a bit slower and do it safely than try and pull the whole instance at once a la the annoying tank in my last Scarlet run.

    • I agree. Sometimes when I’m on my Warlock I might find a tank to be a bit slow, but I figure there might be a reason for it (like someone new to tanking), and so I keep my mouth shut and just do my job.

    • Yes! Especially now that there’s not really any AoE taunts. There is no simple way to get snap aggro on a large amount of mobs anymore. Especially if they’re spread out over a larger area. My healer ended up starting to stand on top of me, since she often got healer aggro when people pulled, so at least I managed to pick most of them up.

      This didn’t work though, of course, when people were adamant on pulling entire rooms where mobs charmed. A charmed tank can’t do threat. But it seems this is too difficult for some people to understand..

  2. I mostly agree with you.

    I don’t begrudge hunters or other dps who can pull ahead and handle themselves.
    At that level it’s possible to be moving forward without a tank on some of the mobs.
    Also, the whole solo experience of questing teaches us to push our own limits.
    If a tank goes AFK a countdown begins after which I will risk death and see if I can take down a stray mob or two.

    That’s opposite of a squishy dps who pulls the whole room though.
    If they pull more than they can handle and endanger the group, that’s grounds for kicking.

    • I have no issues with people pulling ahead if the tank is afk. If I’m on a class that can, I am likely to do so myself if the tank is gone. However, I wasn’t going slowly. I was moving along, not pausing between packs at all. I just wasn’t pulling packs that were as big as they wanted. I have no issues pulling big, once I’ve done a few pulls and know if the healer and myself can handle it. But they would start whinging already at the first pull. Had they not been so obnoxious about it, I probably would have started pulling bigger.

      A dps pulling ahead because they can handle themselves.. While I can see that some might find that interesting, I must admit that I would prefer if they did it when alone in the instance. If someone isn’t afk, I see no reason for the group to break up since really it just makes everything slower for everyone. I’d prefer that everyone sticks together and kill the same target.

      It’s not just about whether a dps can handle it though. Sure, a few people can handle some. But they often tend to pull entire rooms, which means that healers get aggro, tanks have issues picking everything up.. and it’s just a lot more work for the healer in general. If they can tank themselves, fine – go ahead, I don’t mind dpsing πŸ˜€ But don’t expect me to pick up the 15 random mobs you just pulled because you thought 5 were too few!

  3. I’m pure DPS and have never intentionally pulled. DPS are a dime a dozen so I mind my manners as best as I can. I also let the tank set the pace. Sometimes it’s frustratingly slow, in that there are pauses between pulls. Other times, the tank moves so fast that I can barely keep up especially if I’m melee DPS. Those are the tanks that don’t bother to loot and just run from mob to mob trying to clear as fast as they can. I prefer a happy medium, but either way, I don’t complain. I’ve always seen the tank as leader, good or bad.

    • When I play my Warlock I too can get frustrated when tanks are slow (ie. pausing between packs), but I usually let them. They’re tanking and there’s no reason to push them to do more than they are comfortable with. I find that it’s usually counterproductive, since a pushed tank easily gets stressed, mistakes are made and we might all die. I rather go a little bit slower than pay repair bills πŸ˜›

  4. Well, when I am tanking I usually pull quite big packs. I like to split most instances in 3-6 packs since bigger pulls means a faster dungeon. It’ss ok if some dps die. Hey, I’m tank, I’ll dps too. For four anyway ^^ and I sadly have to say that when I am dps, I do kind of pull for the tanks if they don’t have My standard. This is all because I think I am GOD. Sad but true, let’s just hope you wont enter a dungeon group with me and gl with normal ppls πŸ™‚

  5. In my opinion it is both the tank and healer who set the pace of a dungeon. I feel like, as a tank I pull however many I am comfortable with, at a pace I am comfortable with, while keeping in mind the constraints of the healers mana.

    I definitely agree about the quality of leveling dungeons these days. I’ve been running a lot of low level dungeons on my new panda mistweaver, and borne witness to all sorts of terrible groups. I think that people need to step back and realise that just because we’ve done these instances before, doesn’t mean that our level 20 characters can handle them in one pull and tanking is still mandatory.

    I always derive a sense of horrible gratification letting dps who pull on purpose die.

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